Why Coaches Need Coaches: The Path to Personal Growth and Reinvention

In the world of coaching, one truth stands tall: even the best coaches need guidance to unlock their full potential. While many people view coaches as the ones with all the answers, the reality is that great coaches are, first and foremost, committed to their own personal growth and reinvention. To effectively guide others, they must continue to evolve, learn, and explore new perspectives. And one of the most effective ways to do this? By having their own coach and being part of a mastermind community.

The Value of Being Coached

Sherry Hogan, a seasoned certified high-performance coach, emphasizes the critical importance of being coached. “I’m surprised at how many coaches I’ve met along the way who don’t have a coach themselves,” she shares. According to Sherry, having a coach is not just an option—it’s a necessity.

Coaching provides a safe space to uncover blind spots, question limiting beliefs, and explore possibilities you might not see on your own. Even the most experienced coaches can fall into the trap of going through the motions or following outdated frameworks without realizing it. A coach helps you stay intentional, aligned, and focused on your personal and professional growth.

Masterminds: The Power of Collective Wisdom

In addition to having a personal coach, Sherry advocates for being part of a mastermind group. Masterminds bring together a community of like-minded individuals who challenge, inspire, and support one another. The collective wisdom and accountability offered by a mastermind are invaluable for gaining new perspectives and staying on track.

Sherry recalls a piece of advice from a fellow coach that profoundly shaped her approach: “You have to always have a coach and a mastermind. You need those two things all the time because they help you find your way as you grow.”

A mastermind creates a space where you can:

• Exchange Ideas: Gain insights from peers who face similar challenges and opportunities.

• Receive Feedback: Obtain honest and constructive feedback on your ideas, strategies, and decisions.

• Stay Accountable: Set goals and have a group of people to help you stay committed to achieving them.

• Expand Your Network: Build relationships with professionals who share your drive for growth and success.

Reinvention Through Self-Awareness

One of the biggest advantages of having a coach and participating in a mastermind is the opportunity for self-awareness and reinvention. As Sherry points out, growth is not always linear. “Sometimes you’re changing, and you don’t know if you’re moving in the right direction or if you’re just pursuing the next thing that seems logical,” she explains. A coach helps you pause, reflect, and ask the right questions to determine if your current path aligns with your true goals and values.

This self-awareness is particularly crucial for coaches who guide others through transformative processes. “You can’t pour from an empty cup,” Sherry reminds us. To lead clients effectively, coaches must ensure they’re operating from a place of alignment and abundance.

Breaking Free from the Norm

Another key insight from Sherry’s coaching philosophy is the importance of challenging societal norms and expectations. Many coaches, like their clients, are influenced by the desire to fit in or conform to what’s considered “normal.” However, true growth often requires breaking free from these limitations and daring to forge a unique path.

“This is what good coaches do,” Sherry asserts. They ask the tough questions, explore alternative perspectives, and guide their clients toward authentic self-expression. But to do this effectively, coaches must also examine their own rules, habits, and beliefs. A coach can help identify outdated patterns and support you in rewriting them to better serve your current goals.

Courage, Curiosity, and Connection

Sherry identifies three essential qualities that make a coach truly impactful: courage, curiosity, and connection.

1. Courage: Coaching often involves asking tough questions and holding space for uncomfortable truths. It takes courage to confront blind spots, both in yourself and in your clients. Sherry shares a story about a client who initially resisted her questions and even felt frustrated. “He wanted to hang up,” she recalls, “but I held the space and guided him through it.” That moment of courage ultimately led to a breakthrough, and the client became one of her most loyal advocates.

2. Curiosity: Great coaches are lifelong learners. They approach every conversation with an open mind and a genuine desire to understand. By asking thoughtful questions and seeking clarification, coaches can uncover deeper insights and guide their clients toward meaningful change.

3. Connection: Building trust and rapport is at the heart of coaching. Clients need to feel seen, heard, and understood. For Sherry, connection also extends to herself and her values. By staying true to her authentic self and aligning her actions with her beliefs, she’s able to show up fully for her clients.

Coaching: A Journey, Not a Destination

Sherry’s insights remind us that coaching is a dynamic and ever-evolving journey. Whether you’re a new coach just starting out or a seasoned professional, the need for continuous growth and reinvention never goes away. Having a coach and participating in a mastermind aren’t just tools for professional development; they’re vital for personal transformation.

As you navigate your own coaching journey, consider the following:

• Invest in Your Growth: Seek out a coach who challenges and inspires you to reach new heights.

• Join a Mastermind: Surround yourself with a supportive community that fosters collaboration and accountability.

• Embrace Reinvention: Regularly assess your beliefs, values, and goals to ensure they align with your evolving vision.

• Practice What You Preach: Model the behaviors and habits you encourage in your clients.

In the words of Sherry Hogan, “You have to always have a coach and a mastermind. These are the things that will help you find your way as you grow.” As coaches, our commitment to our own development not only benefits us but also empowers the clients we serve.

Are you ready to take the next step in your coaching journey? It might be time to find your own coach or mastermind and unlock the next level of your potential.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Sherry Hogan English

09:40 Overcoming People Pleasing

16:59 Breaking Old Rules and Embracing New Ones

24:45 Finding Your Authentic Coaching Style

Full Transcript

Sherry Hogan English (00:00)

I think it's really important to understand the coaching relationship from being coached.

I'm surprised at so many coaches that I've met along the way that don't have a coach. I have a friend that says you have to always have a coach and a mastermind. You have to have those two things all the time because those things will help you really find your way as you're growing. Because sometimes you're changing and you don't know just because you're moving in a direction is this really my direction or is it just the next thing that I think I should be doing because I want to fit in or because I want to be

normal. This is what good coaches do.

Amanda Kaufman (00:59)

Well, hey, hey, welcome back to the Amanda Kaufman show and we are continuing our series on the coaches that don't suck. So I had to personally reach out to my friend Sherry Hogan English because I knew she was definitely a coach that did not suck. She's been a member of the coaches Plaza community for years. She's been just such an amazing community member and participant. Sherry, welcome to the show.

Sherry Hogan English (01:26)

Thank so much. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. My honor.

Amanda Kaufman (01:29)

Yes.

Yes. So, so dear listener, Sherry is a fellow certified high performance coach. She's an author. She's dedicated to helping boomer eldest daughters reclaim their authentic selves and thrive in the third act. With a background as a resilient nonprofit executive, Sherry draws on her own journey to empower women in their late 60s and beyond to reconnect, reimagine and reinvent for a full

fulfilling and joyful life. my gosh, Sherry, this is awesome. So you've been a CHPC for some time. You're now focused on the eldest daughter in the third act. Tell me a little bit about how you evolved to this niche. This is very specific niche. So tell me a little bit about it.

Sherry Hogan English (02:19)

Well, fortunately, I've worked with probably about 50 clients over the last three to four years, men, women, various ages. And I just found that I lit up working with women that are in my generation and then just coming, you know, in coaching.

you'd be in it a couple of sessions and I'd say, by any chance, are you an eldest daughter? And they'd say, yes. And you just knew that there was some different sort of perspectives, outlooks, feeling very responsible for everything and everyone. One of my questions is usually, tell me who you were before you were everything.

to everyone. so, and then, and then we get that conversation going. And yeah, so it's very fulfilling. These are my sisters. There's a lot of us out there, so I'm not worried about the niche being too small. So yeah, yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (03:04)

Oof.

No, it's not. No, yeah,

it's really good. think when a coach can get specific about who they love to work with, it makes a huge, huge difference. And I remember you're making me think of my own niche story. Back in my early days of the entrepreneurial chapter, I did the same thing. I dated around. I coached all kinds of different people with different backgrounds, different goals, aspirations.

It was such a wonderful period of my of my career because I got to try so many different things. But just like you, I found that I kept getting drawn to somebody who was also coachy, just like me, but perhaps didn't have the same level of confidence when it came to selling their services or feeling like they could be confident being themselves online and just feeling honestly that

overwhelm. I'm like, my God, I love overwhelm. Overwhelm is amazing, you know, as something to coach around because it's such a coachable topic. And yeah, we both kind of did the same thing dating around quite a bit and then kind of finding that dream client. I love it. So so talk to me a little bit about your certified high performance coaching. You know, we have a lot of CHPCs that listen to the show, but we've got a lot of people that that don't.

How does high performance coaching help an eldest daughter in their third chapter of life? Like, how are you planning to use it or how do you use it?

Sherry Hogan English (04:48)

I think just the six performance habits are appropriate to anybody. And I think especially with boomer women, women in 16 and above, whether they identify as a boomer or not, that unfortunately that title tag has become a little controversial lately. The okay boomer meme is zapping us.

Anyway, so the point of all that is that the frameworks that we have, the various sessions and things, there are so many things in there that I can use that really help a woman sort of just get focused again. So what I do is I take somebody through a five framework. We look at their beliefs.

We look at their values and then their vision. Because I found that I was often misaligned with goals because I really wasn't solid on what my beliefs were and not just what I believe in, but sort of where it came from and just really understanding that particularly as a Boomer eldest daughter, that I was really programmed, that we're programmed from society, from family to be that woman who...

puts everybody else first, prolific people pleaser. And when you stop and think about what you need, there's this sense of selfishness and guilt that is just pervasive. And so...

Really looking at your beliefs and where they came from and what and which ones you can take on that serve you now The same with values. I look at what I call big V values, which is integrity I believe in honesty, but then you know Do you want to get up at 6 in the morning or you want to sleep until noon? Where do you want to live? What do you want to do? How do you want to still contribute to the world? Do you who who who makes it in who who who gets pushed out? What?

stays in, what stays out as we start to look at your visioning. And then we move from that into making aligned goals. And then the implementation is where we actually start coaching. And I use a lot of Brendan's work because it's just pretty fabulous and it makes sense. Women are looking to get to that next level to really have ownership, ownership, personal agency. And if Brendan isn't about personal agency, I don't know what he is about.

Amanda Kaufman (06:58)

Yeah.

Sherry Hogan English (07:11)

So, yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (07:11)

Totally, totally. Yeah.

And for those that aren't unfamiliar, Brendan Burchard is the author of High Performance Habits. He's the founder of the High Performance Institute that taught the curriculum that Sheri and I are referencing throughout this episode. And by the way, like, I...

love just like showing everybody exactly, you know, what happened, how it happened, what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, even in the now. Brendan is one of those mentors that has endured in my journey for pretty much the whole time I've been actually like even before I was an entrepreneur. And I think it was exactly that. He really he wrote another book called The Motivation Manifesto, and he really teaches and embodies

bodies

this method to freedom and personal expression and personal development that I would recommend to anybody. I'll include the link to Growthday, which is his app where you can hear from him every day in the show notes. Because if you don't follow Brendan, you must. Like, he's really, really good. Yeah. So Sherry, talk to me a little bit about

Sherry Hogan English (08:14)

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? go ahead.

Amanda Kaufman (08:22)

As a coach, what have you noticed works the best for people pleasing? You know, because I think that that's something that all of our dear listeners struggle with to an extent because I honestly haven't really met too many heart centered, amazing coaches who don't on a level battle that same issue of the people pleasing of like, am I honoring my values or am I trying to make, for example, my potential clients happy or my existing employer happy or my family?

happy while I'm trying to build this business. Like this comes up a lot in in my coaching programs. So I'm just curious about like what's your take on the best way to identify that people pleasing could be even you know happening and what do we do about it you know because I think as coaches it's the same thing like when you get that liberation of the big V values and getting more specific about like

Well, what what is your expression of your freedom? You know, like just this morning, the day of this recording is the day after the election. This morning, I was just like feeling, you know, I think I was feeling like the collective sort of relief in the and the and the fear and the sadness and like all of this stuff. And I was just like, I'm going to go to Starbucks.

Sherry Hogan English (09:21)

Uh-huh.

Amanda Kaufman (09:40)

You know, and I broke from my normal routine to go hang out just like among the people to kind of get a little bit more grounded. And to me, that was an expression of freedom, you know, of like I have the freedom of the time, the energy, the space to just like go do a thing at a time when a lot of other people are stuck in a commute. So like Sherry, talk to me a little bit about. Yeah, people pleasing, getting past that sensation of selfishness, getting getting past this this fear, this worry of our attachment.

Sherry Hogan English (09:47)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so there's two key things that I think have helped me with my path. And then I try to share with the women I work with. One of them is I worked for a hospice organization for eight years. And I was the associate executive director of our foundation. So that's where you raise all the funds for hospice care. And so I worked with and spent a lot of time with families.

of our inpatient patients and then with patients. And I had multiple deathbed conversations with people. They weren't dying that moment, but in the days and weeks to come, yes. And they wanted very much to make sure that some things were in place because they wanted to make sure that they made a donation to our organization because they were very grateful. So in those conversations, speaking to both men and women, it struck me that everybody that I spoke

to.

was dying with regrets. And the key thing that I saw with men was they regretted things they did. They worked too hard. They had left sometimes the mother of their children. They broke their home, know, things like that, big things that they just really regretted. Women, 100 % regretted what they didn't do. They regretted not living their authentic life. They regretted putting everybody else first for so long, forever, and never knowing how to

Amanda Kaufman (11:27)

that is so fascinating.

Sherry Hogan English (11:37)

step off that wheel without feeling massively guilty and selfish. And a lot of that is the programming that we got. And so that just, one, scared the bejesus out of me. I thought, you know what, I'm on the same path. I need to do something different. And so one of the things I did this year was I went to Portugal by myself for the whole month of April. And my husband said,

Amanda Kaufman (11:55)

Mm-hmm.

Holy Toledo,

that's cool.

Sherry Hogan English (12:03)

Yeah,

and my husband said, I told him, you know, I started, I created the whole plan and all that, and then I shared it with him, and he said, Sherry, I can't go to Portugal for a month. I said, I love you, baby. You're not invited. So I went, and it was fabulous. And then I came home. I've wanted to go to Portugal for 20 years, and my husband doesn't like to travel. I'm not gonna not travel anymore because of that.

You know, I have to be careful because it's expensive, things like that where those are the things that I'm changing in my life. I don't want to be laying in my deathbed going, my gosh, I wonder what Portugal looked like. The second thing that...

Amanda Kaufman (12:31)

It's so good.

Sherry Hogan English (12:45)

really honed it in for me is that there is a coach I know and I coached with him for about six months and a lot of what we went through was me feeling guilty I need to do this for my sister I need to do that and then feeling resentful and all those feelings and he finally said you know when we have no idea what somebody's life path is and we don't know the lesson that they're here to learn and if you keep

Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom and if you keep putting Tempur-Pedic beds on the rocks They're never going to get what they came here to get the lesson they learned You are actually impeding the path of others their path their natural Focus and what they're here to do and I just thought that's the exact opposite

And that a lot of times when we think we're helping, we're not helping, we're hurting.

Amanda Kaufman (13:39)

Mm.

Sherry Hogan English (13:39)

The biggest way

that you can help others is to live your true life and give from the overflow. know, if you picture people, women give from an empty vessel all the time. And if you picture a cup under a faucet of source, whatever it is that feeds you, and that your cup is always full and the overflow you give from that, then you give from joy and grace and connection.

Amanda Kaufman (13:52)

Hmm.

Sherry Hogan English (14:06)

and you don't give in a way that you're resentful and angry and empty. And then you feel guilty about all those feelings. So it's just one big, you know, mess. Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (14:13)

Mm.

It's like a loop, right? Something

I've been thinking about and talking about more lately is this idea of what coaching is. you know, coaching is a leadership and influence role where we're facilitating a process with our clients. But I wanted to, get even more specific because I do really, really well with specifics, you know. And so the thing that's been coming to mind lately is I'm like, we're kind of the rule.

Sherry Hogan English (14:29)

Mmm.

Okay.

Amanda Kaufman (14:48)

breakers and rewires, you know, so it's like what's that old set of rules that you had been abiding by that maybe even at another time in your life, those rules made sense. Those rules had you in balance. Those rules like let's just say that not all not all rules that are holding you back always did. Sometimes the rules that are holding you back now are rules that were made perfect sense when you first formed the rule.

Sherry Hogan English (14:49)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (15:18)

And when I think about what is coaching, it's like, well, I think it's bringing more awareness to what are the programs or rules that we're executing and bringing more consciousness to that so that we get a choice, we get a decision that we can rewrite the rule or delete the rule or replace the rule with something that's going to be of higher service. And I know, like for me as a coach, when I was starting out, I was very much pouring from the empty vessel still.

Sherry Hogan English (15:19)

Absolutely.

Amanda Kaufman (15:48)

I'm a millennial, but I'm still a woman. And so I was doing the empty vessel thing and it took actually a coaching relationship and a coach of mine to say, Amanda, your highest paid priority is to be good. Right. Like you need to feel good. You need to feel safe. You need to feel joy.

fulfillment. That's not that you can never experience grief or you can never experience guilt or you can never experience any of these normal human experiences. I super hate the bypassing of that sometimes. Like we can emotionally bypass. But if your rule is I'm always guilty for everything that I do, the rule is I'm guilty for walking into the room and maybe inconveniencing somebody else. It's like, OK, you know, how is that going to serve your highest self going forward? Yeah.

Sherry Hogan English (16:35)

Yeah. That wasn't my role. As the oldest of four in a very fractured and violent home, I ran the... My rule is walk in and take over. And that doesn't work either. And so, yeah, you've got to read the room, you have to understand your role, and that comes with assessing.

Amanda Kaufman (16:51)

That was a good one.

Sherry Hogan English (16:59)

asking questions just like we do in coaching. One of the greatest ways that I've broken that is I have an adult daughter.

and we have a close relationship. It's much closer now because I shall start to tell me something and I want to fix it. And I'm very male in that. I just start going into it. What about this? What about that? What about the other? It's the one area in coaching that I've really had to break. Brendan says don't solve, discuss. I want to solve everything. So I really...

you know, I've really had to work on that. But now when my daughter starts to say anything, I say, hey, let me ask you a question. What's my role here? Am I listening? Am I thinking about some thoughts that might be helpful for you? Tell me what you need. And sometimes she'll say, I just want to vent. I just want you to be my mommy. And I'm going to want a big hug at the end.

And now I know, don't solve, don't start spouting off, don't tell her what she did wrong, what she could have done right. Same with cooked clients, same with your husband, same with a lot of your friends, you know, that kind of thing. And sometimes she says, well, let me get it all out and then I'd like to kind of unpack it with you. I am curious about what you're thinking. And then I'm like, good, this is what I'm good at.

Amanda Kaufman (18:18)

Good, I get to do the part I love. Yeah. But and I love that you called

this out too, right? And that's what I'm really thinking about with these old rules versus the new rules is, you know, there's there was a time in a season, I'm guessing, that you learned that it was better to like walk into the room and take control of situation. And that was the better move as as opposed to other moves that might have been available to you. But, you know, I think what can hold us back when we're.

Sherry Hogan English (18:35)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (18:44)

we're trying to grow or we're trying to grow our outcomes in new ways is we we miss that there are things that we could be trying or doing in a new way. And that's honestly the power of coaching, as we like to say. I love it. So, Sherry, what is your favorite part of coaching? Like, you know, one question I really like to ask is what are three ways that a coach can not suck?

Sherry Hogan English (18:53)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think the first way is to really be on a journey of your own personal growth and reinvention. I think it's really important to understand the coaching relationship from being coached.

I'm surprised at so many coaches that I've met along the way that don't have a coach. I have a friend that says you have to always have a coach and a mastermind. You have to have those two things all the time because those things will help you really find your way as you're growing. Because sometimes you're changing and you don't know just because you're moving in a direction is this really my direction or is it just the next thing that I think I should be doing because I want to fit in or because I want to be

normal. This is what good coaches do.

So I think it's really getting really solid with yourself and understanding your beliefs, the value that you have to give, really understanding your role of

Discuss and discovery and decision and it's the it's the clients decisions not your decisions. So yours is discovery and discussion opening up seeing those I always go back here the the Blind spots that someone has And then recognizing your own blind spots as things are coming up. man, I do that too. And that's not pretty Yeah, or nice or good so I

think really knowing yourself and working with a coach, I think the second thing is just being really, really present and curious. Just hearing and listening and asking for clarification when you hear something. And then being brave to say, hey, in the last three sessions, you have said this, and yet it seems so out of character or out of alignment with where you say you're going.

Amanda Kaufman (20:43)

Hmm.

Sherry Hogan English (21:04)

Tell me more about that. And just bringing things up and then when somebody says, well, we don't have to talk about that, I go,

That's the exact thing we have to talk about. And just being courageous enough to do that and not worrying about whether they're going to like me or my favorite client I ever had for the first three or four sessions, he would literally be so pissed off. wanted to hang up. He just wanted to get off the phone one time and I said, this is exactly, we have to stick, this is where we stick together. I'm going to hold this space. We're going to go through it. Go. Curse me out. I don't care. What's going on?

And he ended up being like one of my absolute favorite clients. And he's the person who gave me one of my best testimonials. And still always checks in with me. Every couple of months he sends me a text that says, what are you up to, master woman or some wonderful thing. So I think it's being very present, very curious. And then that third thing was just being also courageous.

Amanda Kaufman (21:53)

That's so cool.

Love that, that's so good.

Sherry Hogan English (22:07)

Ask more questions

for clarification and then be brave enough to see what you think you see. And then asking, you know, how it fits. And then sometimes when there's that, well, you've hit that nerve, you're like, wow, okay. You know what my favorite thing that I've ever heard from a client is, wow, they just sit back and say, I didn't even know I thought that.

or another version is, I've never said that out loud even to myself.

Amanda Kaufman (22:42)

Exactly. Yeah.

Sherry Hogan English (22:43)

And in that moment,

I feel humble, honored just to be in that moment because I know what those moments feel like when I've had them in coaching. Those are big breakthroughs that can happen so softly.

Amanda Kaufman (22:57)

I love this. Those are huge.

you're reminding me of something that I teach my students and my team members when they're selling on my behalf is ask the question that'll lose the sale. Right. Like, if you know that there's a question to be asked, you know, then that's the one you need to ask. Because if they don't, if they can't trust you to ask the question,

Sherry Hogan English (23:12)

Mm.

Amanda Kaufman (23:26)

in the enrollment process, then down the stream when you're in the coaching relationship and you're suddenly asking all these nosy questions, you know, that's not setting anybody up for success. I think it took me a few years to really embody and learn like they pay you to push.

Sherry Hogan English (23:37)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (23:48)

because that people-pleasy side was just like, I don't want to make them feel blah, blah, blah. I don't want them to yada, yada. And it took me a minute to realize, I'm like, that's actually a form of manipulation. It's a little like taking the Tempur-pute mattress and making sure that they don't bump into anything. And it's like, well, if they're not even bumping into the coach that they hired, what are we even doing here? And that's not to say you've got to be a big instigator.

Sherry Hogan English (24:03)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Take a talk with your best friend for free.

Amanda Kaufman (24:16)

Like I, I we've been interviewed a lot of coaches in this program and like there's some that their authentic style is a lot of cussing and jumping up and down and, you know, beating of the chest because that's very like that. That's authentic. Like that. That's not them like faking it to make it. And it's like, I'll I'll push it. But like. But I think that people choose a coach for the relationship as much as anything else.

Sherry Hogan English (24:43)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (24:45)

And

so if your authentic way of pushing is simply to ask the question directly, or one of my favorite weapons of choice is to simply look at the camera and just hold that space of silence, it can create the same pressure as beating your chest and jumping up and down. You can find your style and your way of doing it. I love it. So Sherry, what's the best way for people to follow you?

Sherry Hogan English (24:51)

Mm-hmm.

Right now as I'm sort of pivoting from just the high performance coaching to this very specific niche, sorry, my website would be the best way. SherryHoganEnglish.com

Amanda Kaufman (25:22)

Perfect, we'll make sure we put that in the link below in the show notes and dear listener, make sure that you've hit subscribe so you don't miss the next episode and do us a favor and leave a review. Five stars, please. Sherry worked really, really hard. But seriously, having the reviews up there and like showing that you're supportive of the show actually helps other people find the show. And this might have been the exact conversation they needed to hear.

In fact, you probably have three friends who would benefit from this episode. So go ahead and send them the link to this episode so they can hear about niching down, about people pleasing, about all the things that we talked about in the episode. Sherry, thank you so much for being here.

Sherry Hogan English (26:05)

Thank you. It's awesome seeing you again.

Amanda Kaufman (26:08)

Yes, yes, I loved it and just cheering you on. I hope that you have so much success with this new niche. And listener, we'll see you on the next episode. Bye bye.